View source for Helpful feedback on Lunar Games items

[[Category:Winter Games]]<-- back to Talk page of the Winter Games [[Talk:Winter Games]]<br>

Any helpful feedback on items please leave here.

--[[User:Jono Bean|Jono Bean]] 15:33, 28 Aug 2006 (NZST)

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==Some specific comments==

===Titan Breastplate===
: Is the intention that when using it Mebh will not be able to have beneficial spells cast on her?  
: Currently the only important beneficial spell it stops is Quickness.  Most buff/utility type spells are not resistable and lots of them have sufficient duration that they can be cast in the morning before the armour is put on. 
: The fact that she can be 'buffed up' before putting on her armour means she only misses out on the quick and dirty melee spells such as Quickness.   All the other typical buffs would cover her for the entire day.

: I find it interesting that people generally value this so highly.  The fact that you can't be under the effect of a Quickness while wearing it makes it pretty mediocre.  Given that this item will only be used on a high-level game, most characters will have access to Rk 20 Str of Stone, and at least mid-rank Waters of Str anyway.  Of course, it is nice to have them on all the time, but would you trade it for no quickness?  On a high-level game, this item *effectively* slows the wearer ensuring that they take twice as long to do any action (because everyone except them will be quickened).  Personally, I wouldn't wear it even if it was given to me for free, but then I like having actions too much :)  Other people may prefer to act less often and have a little more resistance, but I suspect I am not alone in my choice.  Would *you* wear it? Anyone attacking the wearer in melee gets -10 on their die rolls, so at least 1 in 10 attacks is a possible spec.  If the armour takes 5 specs in a single combat then you throw the entire thing away (since it can only be repaired if it has positive AR).  It *is* good armour, but *only* good armour.  [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 08:01, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)

Hmmm, good points Andrew, though I have to admit that I based my value on the presumption that someone would work out a way to get around the quickness problem. There always seems to be something happening to play around with the rules, so I am sure someone will find a way to slip a quickness through the cracks :-) You have also probably got to used to extreme games that alsways have access to Quickness, Str of Stone and Waters of Str. Access is not always available, especially to the latter 2, so permanent effects in this are very worthwhile.

[[User:Dean|Dean]] 11:15, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)
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Andrew wrote: "If the armour takes 5 specs in a single combat then you throw the entire thing away (since it can only be repaired if it has positive AR)".

Yep, true... unless you have access to something that will "repair one Specific Grievous of damage to any type of armour", such as 25sp worth of Copper Leaves (from the Fastness), plus some wine. (Recent party hauled back 450 lbs of these -- enough to fix 90 spec grevs).

[[User:Martin|Martin Dickson]] 12:38, 31 Aug 2006 (NZST)
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===Sword of Aaron===

: I rate this as one of the toughest items.  A +5% +5 Dam Hand and a Half is a weapon that most fighters would use as first choice.  That it can potentially petrify everyone you strike is awesome.  Resistance at -20 means that at least half of the people you hit will be statues.  The biggest problem I forsee in using this weapon is trying to squeeze between the ranks of statues in front of you to get at the people behind them.   It is DQ-Supers tough but if that is the level you intended than that's your descision.
: The issue I have with it is why resist vs Water General??  Binder Special I could understand as they have a spell that turns people into stone, or Mind Special (Mol Rec), or Wicca Special (Damnum Magnatum), or Earth Special (Binders probably stole the spell from Earth), or even Namer Special as a Naming/Untrue form type thing.  But Water General is odd.

[[User:Stephen|Stephen]] 11:25, 25 Aug 2006 (NZST)

Sword of Aaron has been re-written. --[[User:Jono Bean|Jono Bean]] 15:36, 28 Aug 2006 (NZST)

; The Sword of Aaron (v2)
: WGT: 6 lbs Value: Quest
: This magical hand and a half sword is made of fine blue silver with a golden handle. It is magically enchanted to give the user a SC of 65% (being +5 over normal), and D+10 damage (being +5 over normal), and ''if effective damage is done to none living creatures'' with this weapon, then the target must resist Vrs Water Special or be dehydrated and then turned to stone (once dead).

I assume this is meant to be 'damage done to non-living creatures...'.
This tones down the weapon a lot as it will not affect the living and many non-living would not be affected by dehydration.  
-- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] 18:10, 28 Aug 2006 (NZST)

Ummm... there are almost no ''non-living'' creatures that will be affected by dehydration.  Undead will not be affected (even Zombies will likely just become skeletons).  Demons/Devils will not be affected.  Golems (except perhaps flesh golems) will not be affected.  A struggle to think of anything I have encounted in the last year of play that *would* be affected.  The valuation of such an item would be pretty low. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 08:01, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)

Yeah, I was struggling to think of anything that would be affected but I assumed that was just me being slow and there would be a few things affected.  A Water Elemental is the only one I can think of now - presuming that Elementals are 'non-living'.  My current valuation of this sword was based on its +5/+5 and a small amount for an effect that may prove really useful on rare occasions.
-- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] 11:50, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)

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===Club of the Seal King===
: This simple war-club .only does EN hits. For every small furry animal killed by the club it gains +10 SC and +1 damage till sunrise.
: A user may only take up WP such effects. The small furry animals must be at least house cat sized.
: War club Wt 3 SC 50 D+2 C class, range 9
: GTN Formerly living, GTN Heartwood, ToM Death
: Value 7,500 sp

: I am a little unclear as to how this works.  It needs a rewrite to make it less ambiguous.  The item only does endurance hits.  Does this mean that a Spec Grev and Endurance are normal Endurance hits, but a fatigue blow is a *miss*, or does it mean that *any* successful strike is automatically an Endurance hit?

Yes. -William

: The bonus that applies after killing a small furry critter stacks up to WP times... so someone with 20 WP and a bit of time to prepare will have +200% SC and +20 damage right?

Yes. Any idea how long that would take? The mess? The sheer logistical insanity required? There are just far easier ways for a high level character to get the same effect. - William
: We are talking about '''guild members''' here right?  Even the relatively sane ones keep rabies-infected mammoths skin-changed into mice in their backpacks for an emergency.  On any prepared assault, this would be easy to organise and relatively clean compared to many guild missions - at least there are no unborn children required for this :) [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 08:01, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)

The Club is *any* successful strike is automatically an Endurance hit. I think the bonus is max WP, so 20WP character would gain a max of 20 to SC and +2 Damage, I will check with William.
--[[User:Jono Bean|Jono Bean]] 15:36, 28 Aug 2006 (NZST)

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===Frozen Luck===
: This can be used at the players choice correct?  So there is no down side to this?  I don't care if there isn't, but from talking to Jono I had a slightly different picture of it.

I will check with William regarding the Frozen Luck. 
--[[User:Jono Bean|Jono Bean]] 15:36, 28 Aug 2006 (NZST)

: These give you at least 10 Spec Grev Blows, about 15 END blows, say 25 MR saves, 20-30 useful stat rolls and around 20 Damage rolls of 9 or 10
-- [[User:Chris|Chris]]

Yes that's how it works. The thing is when do you use them? Some Players will burn through the good numbers like they had two more write ups of the same effect. Others will hold on to them more tightly than a limpet waiting for the 'truly needed moment', which never comes. For the middle grounders they get to make a roll when it's needed. Yay, they get to be heroes.

Note that the PC must choose the number instead of making a roll. If the dice roll is modified or the PC must re-roll that applies too.

-- William

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===The Tetragramaton===
: This is a small bronze plaque inscribed with one of the most powerful words in the multi-verse.
: It has a number of uses.
: 1) If used to make a golem the binder's effective rank is doubled.
: 2) If attached to a suit of armour the wearer is considered to actively resist all hostile magics targeted against them.
: 3) If used on a shield the user may reduce magic damage from the front by their armour rating.
: 4) If used on a c class melee weapon it acts as having a permanent rank 10 smite effect. D+11
: 5) If used on a bladed weapon the weapon ignores armour.
: 6) When held by a namer their rank in counter spells is increased by 50% for determining chances to dispel.
: The tetragramaton does D+6 damage to any constructs, unholy, PODs, agents or such like things on contact.

This is probably the toughest item here because it can be applied to another item to improve it.  I know of swords that hit for over D+20.  I also know of swords that do nasty things if they do effective damage (such as automatically spec grev, poison etc), but were balanced because they hit lightly and wouldn't always get through armour.  This could turn a reasonably tough item into something that is *extremely* frightning (e.g. a D+20 sword that ignores armour).

[[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 09:36, 28 Aug 2006 (NZST)

Again yes. It is stonkingly tough. But what does 'attached' mean? You must affix the plaque to the item. This probably requires the services of a smith or even a shaper. Attaching may destroy the original shaped effects. So it's not something you can easily transfer. And it's sought after by every evil binder to fashion their super, uber golem o doom.

---William

Actually on the example Andrew mentioned it says 'If Used' and if attached means that shaping may be damaged that should be specified. 
[[User:Mandos|Mandos]] 11:57, 31 Aug 2006 (NZST)


William, since your signature is on the item would you care to explain what "attached" means in the context of the item? And whether "used" and "attached" mean the same thing?  Does "used to make a Golem" mean that it is consumed in the process?  Or does the Binder wear it while working?

You state that it "probably requires the services of a smith or even a shaper"; does it?  Who would know better than you?

[[User:Martin|Martin Dickson]] 12:26, 31 Aug 2006 (NZST)

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===Golden Shield===
: 3 lbs Quest
: This large round shield gives normal defense to the user. The shield also gives half as much IV for weapons that are used in the other hand at the same time (as a bonus). It also gives +2 damage to the other weapon.
; Golden Shield of the Emperor
: 3 lbs quest
: This large round shield gives normal defense to the user. The shield also gives twice as much IV for weapons that are used in the other hand at the same time. It also gives +3 damage to the other weapon.

A question on the ''Golden Shield of the Emperor''. When it says twice as much IV, is that the total IV for the engaged weapon (including PC and AG) or just the weapon and warrior ranks (if applicable). I interpreted it as just doubling the rank contributions. Is that correct?

[[User:Keith|Keith]]


The Golden Shields were amongst the most ambiguous items in terms of effect.  Do they increase or decrease IV of the weapon?  That is, do they add +2 damage while increase IV to 150% of normal, or do they add +2 DM while halving IV?  (Use of "bonus" suggest the former, in which case "half as much" should be "half as much again")... or do they provide normal defence and add half that defence value as bonus IV??

[[User:Martin|Martin Dickson]] 12:32, 31 Aug 2006 (NZST)

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May I suggest this as a change to the writeup, I believe that this is the intent:

; Golden Shield
: Weight: 3 lbs (7 lbs less than a standard shield)
: When wielded in combat this large round shield gives:
:* Normal defense (4% per rank in shield)
:* Increased initiative with the primary weapon, instead of 1 per rank in the primary weapon and in warrior, add 1.5 per rank.
:* Increased damage with the primary weapon, +2 damage.
: NB The increased IV and damage do not apply to attacks with the shield, nor to other secondary attacks (e.g. Unarmed Kick).
; Golden Shield of the Emperor
: Weight: 3 lbs (7 lbs less than a standard shield)
: When wielded in combat this large round shield gives:
:* Normal defense (4% per rank in shield)
:* Increased initiative with the primary weapon, instead of 1 per rank in the primary weapon and in warrior, add 2 per rank.
:* Increased damage with the primary weapon, +3 damage.
: NB The increased IV and damage do not apply to attacks with the shield, nor to other secondary attacks (e.g. Unarmed Kick).
----
I and others initially interpreted this as multiplying your total IV with your primary weapon by 1.5 or 2, but this has an extreme effect when combined with high IV characters (E.g. Sabrina gained over 50IV using the Golden Shield) which I'm sure was not the intention.  
-- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] 13:57, 31 Aug 2006 (NZST)

===Boon from the Temple of War===
 (+1 effective rank in a weapon)
Req'd time to rank the weapons? 

As I read it, you don't rank the weapon, you simply use it 1 effective rank higher than your actual rank.
E.g. Hand and a Half at Rk 6, wield it at rank 7.  When you rank it to 7 then you get to wield it as if Rk 8.
-- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] 14:28, 29 Aug 2006 (NZST)

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== Valuations ==
As an interesting exercise, what would you all value these items at?  

This is not about judging the items, but to see how much we vary in out valutaions of the same items.

Add your valuation and name, or add your name to an existing valuation if you agree with it.  GMs is the item value from Jon/Jono/William.
Please read the writeup before adding a value.

=== A - F ===

; Belts of hair and shells (3 x Roll 3 times take the best)
: 200 -- GMs
: 1,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 3,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 6,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Belt of Speed (+3 TMR)
: 1,500 -- GMs
: 4,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 7,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 15,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 18,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Belt of Strength (Permanent Rk 20 SoS on PS)
: 2,000 -- GMs
: 12,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 20,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 40,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 42,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 50,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Belt of the Unborn
: 50,000+ -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 140,000+ -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 200,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 250,000+ (shouldn't be in game) -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: Shouldn't be in the game -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Boon from the Temple of War (+1 effective rank in a weapon)
: 8,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Black mask and choker
: 3,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Black Net of Catock
: 4,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Blank and Red Mask of the Hidden Jester
: 7,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 15,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Blindside ring (War or Assn Rk dependent reduction in rear hexes)
: 5,500 -- GMs
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 15,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 17,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 18,000+ -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 20,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Blue sling of Luck (+2Dm attacks on taller people are a possible Spec Grev)
: 8,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 20,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 35,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; The Book of Light & Shadow (3 masterwork alchemist recipes)
: 25,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 35,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 40,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 45,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 50,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Boots of Dark Speed (+20% Stealth +20% Climbing -1 TMR)
: 1,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 2,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Boots of Stealth (+2 TMR Hard to Track must be < 5'10")
: 5,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 7,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 14,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 18,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 24,000 -- GMs
; Breastplate of the Titans
: 40,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 200,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 200,000+ (shouldn't be in game) -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 200,000-500,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: Shouldn't be in the game -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Chalice of bitter taste (5,200sp to make party immune to poison for a day)
: 500 -- GMs  [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 5,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Choker of Wind & Spikes (Speak unknown languages for up to 3 hours at whisperers rank)
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 6,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Club of the Seal King
: ? can't understand formula -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Commanders Neck Guard (Prot Knockout, Mil Sci locate-ish troops)
: 1,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 6,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Dagger of Power (+5% +2Dm Res vs Fire of Unable to Draw Mana dor D10 min)
: 2,000 -- GMs
: 4,500 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 6,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 12,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 8-10,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]   Very potent against any Mage
; Depraved ring of the Gigolo (Stat bonuses for sex)
: 15,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 18,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 25,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Duration Tattoo Enchantment (Double Dur of one spell cast on self)
: 5,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Egg of warm Waterspout
: 1,500-2,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 2,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Elixir of Youth (restored to full health prime of youth)
: 10,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Enchanted Ruby Lips
: 4,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 6,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] (4k for rubies already in box + 2k for magic)
; An Escape Tunnel (per charge - 30 sec Tunnel to Ranke)
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 1,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 4,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Fan of Distraction (Enrage aquatic within 50')
: 25 -- GMs
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 3,500 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Fan of the four Winds
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 12,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 16,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Frozen Luck (Each number 01-00 may be used once instead of a dice roll)
: 60,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 80,000+ (1/2 doz Specs, 30-40 ensured casts, etc) -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 100,000 (1/2 doz Specs with death/debilitating injury assured, 8-10 EN blows, 15 x 9 or 10 on damage roll, 30-40 ensured casts, beserk rage fright rolls, etc)-- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: Needs to be rewritten -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]

=== G - M ===

; Girdle of the Brave Warriors (War Rk3+ get second fear check)
: 1,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 3,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 5,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Girdle of the fast Warriors (War Rk6+ 2nd fear check and 4FT to move additional Rk hexes)
: 7,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 12,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Golden fur boots (+2 TMR)
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 12,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Golden Shield (+2 Dam +? IV with primary weapon) [Or do these reduce IV??]
: ? (can't understand writeup) -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 7,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 15,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 25,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Golden Shield of the Emperor (+3 Dam +?? IV with primary weapon)
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 22,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Grey body armour of Protection (12AP 6vsEN, Wt4 Ag-4, No Magic works)
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 12,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Harness of enchanted sleep (4xFT recovery if you sleep naked in the harness)
: 2,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 6,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 8,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Heart of Gold (D+10 and Stun Impure, Enhanced Golems)
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 15,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Helm of Dark Luck (+1AP -5%MR)
: 2,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 5,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; An Imperial Pardon Writ
: ? What's the value of 10x Lunar slaves + debts? -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; An Imperial Writ to Land
: 50,000? What is the cost of land in Lunar City? -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: ? Ditto Stephen's question -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Key Stone
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Light Gold Ball (Per Charge - Banish All Elementals within 150')
: 2,400 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 2,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Lightning Sword (H1/2 +10%, Permanent Lightning Spell +21% +6dam +10iv)
: 13,350 -- GMs
: 28,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 35,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 45,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 75,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Lunar gold nuggets (per use)
: 125 -- GMs
: 500 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 750 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Magic Papers 
: 5,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 12,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]

=== N - R ===

; Necklace of Gems
: 1,500 -- GMs
: 5,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 7,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Nipple ring of the Emperors
: 15,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 18,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 20,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Painful Sleep (90% chance of waking if a sentient comes within 50')
: 500 -- GMs
: 1,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 3,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Petronella's female/male disguise
: 6,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 8,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 10,000 / 8,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] (male 8k due to less useful outfit)
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; The Pike of the East (No damage, shorter targets Res vs Wicca or die, expires in 2 years)
: 12,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 12,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 200,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Rabbits Feet (one use roll again after a failed MR)
: 200 -- GMs
: 900 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Ring of Gymblow (approx 3,000sp per charge re-usable invested Rk 16 Feather Fall & Flight)
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 6,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 7,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 8,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Ring of Pure Wind (Dance with equal rank to your partner)
: 1,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 4,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Ring of Intimate Winds (Borrowed Aspect)
: 1,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 6,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Ring of Intimate Winds (Assassin Forgetfullness) [Is this the right name? [[User:Martin|Martin Dickson]]]
: 3,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 4,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 8,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 15,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Ring of the Field Commanders (Mil Sci Rk dependent bonus to party SC, Def, IV)
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]] [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Ring of the Senators Command (Mil Sci Rk dependent bonus to party SC, Def, IV, bonus pass action)
: 15,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]  [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 25,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 30,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Ring of Return (One use personal escape to Lunar Inquisitors)
: 5,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Rock of Green sands (per use)
: 1,000 -- GMs
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 2,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Rock of Igniting Lamps
: 1,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 1,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 2,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Round Shield (Attracts all missiles within .5 Mi to strike wielder)
: 25 -- GMs
: 100 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] (combine with an immunity effect and protect entire army from missle fire). I agree [[User:Dean|Dean]]

=== S - Z ===

; Shailah Mask (Female only, Extra Pass action every other pulse if 2 men present)
: 3,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 4,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Shards of the frozen form (Heal and True Form x 4)
: 10,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 8,000 per charge -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 40,000 (10,000 per charge) -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Shell necklaces (3 x +3wp vs mind magics for 3 hours)
: 200 -- GMs [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 300 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Short sash of blight (Once per day use PB to heal friends within 50', PB heals 1/day)
: 4,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]  [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 7,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 30,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Short Sword of Speed (Always go first, always hit once/pulse, defence reduced)
: 5,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 7,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 14,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 15,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; A silver tongue stud (can lie convincingly)
: 2,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 2,500 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 3,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 5,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Simple Attraction (Opponent unable to withdraw - 3/day)
: 2,500 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 7,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 10,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Small Blue Ring (Sleep comfortably anywhere, +1FT/Hr in a comfortable bed)
: 2,500 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 4,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Small red river stone (Second chance at fear checks, -30% on fright table)
: 500 -- GMs [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 1,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 2,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Sticking Sword (H1/2 +5% +3Dm +5iv)
: 11,000 -- GMs
: 12,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 15,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 25,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Sword of Aaron (H1/2 +5% +5Dm Unliving Res vs Water or Dehydrate)
: 22,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 28,000+ -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: 30,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 35,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Sword of Ascaron the Inquisitor (Sh Swd +1Dam, Permanent Rk 15 Smite)
: 10,000 -- GMs
: 15,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 25,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: ? don't understand damage calculation -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; The Tetragramaton (detailed above)
: 50,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 100,000 -- [[User:Chris|Chris]]
: Should be rewritten and toned down -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Tinderbox of Firebrands (Concealable 1/4Staff +20% +10dam (Fire) Rk 5 may Multi-Hex)
: 10,000 -- GMs [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 15,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 40,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
; Walrus Fat (Stackable +40% Def in close, +20% in melee for 50mins)
: 200 -- GMs
: 2,500 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 3,500 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Wand of Corrupt failures (Increase BC of Gen Spells by 10% per additional FT used)
: 1,200 -- GMs  [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 3,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]] [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 5,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Wand of Corrupt duration (Dispell Magic Equivalent, Counterspell at Dble FT, -20%BC, no resist)
: 8,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
: 20,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 35,000 -- GMs [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 40,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
; Warriors Neck Guard (Prot Knockout, free attack in close based on War Rk)
: 8,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 28,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
; Weapon belt of the black rocks (Carry 10 scabarded weapons at no encumbrance)
: 8,000 -- [[User:Dean|Dean]]
: 13,000 -- [[User:Stephen|Stephen]]
: 18,000 -- [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]
: 25,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]]
; Whip of the Wasted/Worn Will
: 10,000 -- [[:Category:Mandos|Mandos]] [[User:Stephen|Stephen]] [[User:Dean|Dean]] [[:Category:Martin Dickson|Martin]]

===Total===
This would seem to be somewhat outside the [[Campaign_Guidelines#Money_Limits|Money Limits]] of the Campaign Guidelines.

I'd be interested to hear from the GMs involved and their thoughts on why this is an acceptable deviation from the agreed limits.

[[User:Martin|Martin Dickson]] 20:07, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)
----

=== Other Considerations ===
# Arguments about the quantity and value of the items aside, I found many of the writeups to be ambiguous and difficult to parse -- in some cases I was left quite unsure what the intended abilities of the item were -- and feel that they would generally benefit from some copyediting and refinement to improve clarity.
# Many of the items currently have a value only of "Quest" given.
#* Almost all magical items gained in DQ are gained via Quest -- short of a few manufactured potions and the like -- and GMs are expected to put values against them. Is there a reason that the LWG items should be different?
#* I also feel that items really need values against them as there are other items, and abilities, etc in the campaign that trigger off values.

[[User:Martin|Martin Dickson]] 17:30, 30 Aug 2006 (NZST)

== Re-write completed after considerations ==

Hi all,

Thanks to those that have put in lots of effort on these couple of pages. I have changed/re-writen some of the items from the LWG. I have removed some items and replaced them almost totaly. I have tried to make some of the items clearer and more understandable (such as the shields).<br> 
<br>
Yes it is helpful to other GMs to have a value on items other than Quest. I have valued all of the items which comes to a total of 706,200sp which works out at approximatly 47,080sp each if we did a split based on values (which we are not). These do fall within what Jon, William and I acceptable limits. A total of five GMs helped me review the items for their value, it was not a solo-effort.<br>
<br>
I will email the players and look at replacing items with new writeups that have a values added to them. I will add this to the wiki as a replacement item file.<br>
<br>
The new items pdf file can be found on the main page [[Winter Games]].  <br>
<br>
Kind regards, --[[User:Jono Bean|Jono Bean]] 15:42, 1 Sep 2006 (NZST)<br>
<br>

----
Excellent work on the rewrites Jono. 

[[User:Mandos|Mandos]] 19:51, 1 Sep 2006 (NZST)